Least icy resort in Vt.

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Least icy resort in Vt.

Postby snowwizard on 24 Dec 2009, 09:47

Read this topic on the AZone. Just about hit the floor laughing, but true. It shows how grooming has become so reliant on grooming with powertillers everynight. Areas making more snow to cover up hard pack surface. A waste of resourses to make snow on more snow. We as groomers and Mtn. Managers accept this and go out and keep grooming hard pack surfaces or make more snow to cover it. This topic sounds like many areas do not know how to maintain what they have, thus producing a hardpack surface that we take for granted in the Northeast. They're techniques to groom snow to keep the surface skiable and rideable.
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Re: Least icy resort in Vt.

Postby Tom400CFI on 26 Dec 2009, 19:22

snowwizard wrote:They're techniques to groom snow to keep the surface skiable and rideable.

Let's hear then. Everyone wants a "softer, longer lasting product". Lets hear about it! :)

-Tom
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Re: Least icy resort in Vt.

Postby snowwizard on 27 Dec 2009, 10:34

Tom400CFI wrote:
snowwizard wrote:They're techniques to groom snow to keep the surface skiable and rideable.

Let's hear then. Everyone wants a "softer, longer lasting product". Lets hear about it! :)

-Tom


Be more than glad to come to your resort to discuss what it takes.
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Re: Least icy resort in Vt.

Postby Tom400CFI on 27 Dec 2009, 18:32

O.K....how do we arrange that?

Is it some kind of secret? You opened the box w/your statment that I quoted. Don't leave us hangin'! :mrgreen:
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Re: Least icy resort in Vt.

Postby mtnventures31 on 07 Jan 2011, 16:52

In my experience blowing snow over the surfaces to cover them up can work as long as you time it right. I have been all over the east coast to different mountains to work on grooming operationsand one of the biggest issues that comes up is not the amount of snow needed but at what time the man made snow is bladed out. Often times mountains do not let the snow dry and therefore end up with a great skiing surface for about the first 20 skiers and riders and then you are back to boiler plate. Let all the snow dry out and you will have a longer softer and durable surface. It may require more blade work at night but I was brought up in the groomers being taught that blading is 90% of grooming and if you aren't using your blade than you aren't grooming.
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Re: Least icy resort in Vt.

Postby snowwizard on 17 Jan 2011, 11:03

mtnventures31 wrote:In my experience blowing snow over the surfaces to cover them up can work as long as you time it right. I have been all over the east coast to different mountains to work on grooming operationsand one of the biggest issues that comes up is not the amount of snow needed but at what time the man made snow is bladed out. Often times mountains do not let the snow dry and therefore end up with a great skiing surface for about the first 20 skiers and riders and then you are back to boiler plate. Let all the snow dry out and you will have a longer softer and durable surface. It may require more blade work at night but I was brought up in the groomers being taught that blading is 90% of grooming and if you aren't using your blade than you aren't grooming.

I know a ski resort that makes the wet snow and grooms it out wet and has been rated the best skiing and riding in the East. This mountain does not have an issue with hard packed conditions.
Is using the blade make a difference? Yes, but when a true boiler plate hard packed surface has formed. No.
Using a power tiller over time just makes the sub-surface more compacted. Most operators will start using down pressure to get the tiller to leave a some what of a good pass thus creating a more compacted sub-surface.
How many operators use down pressure on the tiller when grooming?
What 90% of ski areas have accepted this hard packed surface as it is what it is? You can blade and turn over the snow but after time it will turn into a frozen granular snow and with out making new snow or getting Mother Nature to help until then snow is frozen granular.
Snow will go through cycles here in the East and sometimes it gets really hard to maintain it. I.E hard pack or frozen hard pack.
Snow maintenance or trail maintenance is a lost art here in the East, but there is ways to combat it.
I'm not here to condone what any one does while maintaining their trails and snow, but there is other methods to use. Feel free to contact me if interested in improving and maintaining your trails.
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Re: Least icy resort in Vt.

Postby snowwizard on 23 Feb 2011, 20:01

Type of grooming with out snowmaking that can help the snow surface and maintain it. This technique is called snow farming or 2 step grooming which is aerating the snow. Power tillers grind up about 3 inches and compact the sub-surface. Trail maintenance at the most areas is power till and blade. These tools if used correctly can keep the snow surface soft and edge able and aerated. Some times you can use one with out the other to areate the surface. There is a time to use them and a time not to. Some changes have been made recently for this process to work more efficently.
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