Question for Operators?

[snowwizard]

How do you set your tillers?
Prinoth Tiller:
Snow chamber setting: do you open it or closed or use both settings? Uphll pass and down hill pass.
Float or Compact mode? Uphill pass or down hill pass. Do you use down pressure while in compact mode?
Tiller barrel depth: Buried, 3/4 or adjust when needed? Uphill pass and downhill pass change or leave the same.
Tiller swing mode: Float or straight uphill? Down hill pass tiller swing mode, straight or off set?
Do these settings change varying on snow conditions? If so what conditions would you change your tiller settings?
PB Tiller:
i have not spent much time with in recent years. Last year i did get to try PB's new tiller and was totaly amazed the improvements they have made.
From what i noticed it was all most a flawless tiller. I coudl set the tiller to the depth i needed and did not have to change it in either pass uphill or downhill. That night i set it on a 3 or 4 setting and it worked very nice.
Thanks to all who take their time and share their imput.

[admin]

Prinoth Tiller

Snow chamber setting: It depends on snow quality. In soft, fresher snow, I prefer to leave the chamber closed. Frankly, the less processing the better. I just want to pack the fresh snow and keep it soft (except on the race trail, of course). In harder snow, definitely open the chamber and further process the snow. Again, depending on conditions, I may close it on downhill passes to avoid windrowing, if necessary.

Float or Compact mode? Float most of the time. Up pressure in new snow, particularly on downhill passes, or if having trouble climbing. I prefer to avoid down pressure, except in certain situations in the park.

Tiller barrel depth: Adjust when needed. Deep and slow in soft snow. Faster and shallow to medium depth in harder snow. Burying it in hardpack simply doesn't work, even with heavy blading.

Tiller swing mode: Straight, except when going around turns. If climbing is tough, float, or tiller steering for correction if necessary. Float for turns without sidehill. Manual articulation in any sidehill situation. Generally do not brush till unless on downhill pass in soft snow on double fall line. Then will articulate and brush till to prevent windrow/turdballs.

PB Tiller

I tend to run the PB tiller essentially the same, with the exception of the snow chamber (which it doesn't have). I should qualify it by saying I haven't run the AlpinFlex yet, so I'm referring to the older standard PB bi-flex tiller. I have found that the PB tiller is much less likely to windrow in fresh snow, especially in up pressure, so it's a little more "set it and forget it," IMO. It's not as aggressive as the Prinoth tiller, so performance in really hard snow is inferior. Usually have to compensate with heavier blading and faster tiller speed, coupled with lower ground speed.


My .02, from 3 seasons of grooming in VT, for whatever that's worth!

[snowwizard]

Thanks Patrick for posting. It sounds like you were taught very well and are a very good operator. but it could be worth a lot to some one who is justing learning this new trade.
I put this question out here because a new operator who asked me why you are changing your tiller functions. He was trained how to use the tiller and was told set it and leave it. (Snow chamber fully open and bury tiller.). He came up to me after my days off and said thanks for helping. The question I posted may be common sense to veteran operators or properly trained operators, but take the time to help new operators.
With this forum Patrick has put together here is a good tool for everyone to share what we all do for a living during the winter months. You never know what may sound like common sense to you may help some else in being a better operator.

[admin]

You're welcome, snowwizard. And an excellent idea for a topic. I'll be interested to see what other operators have to say.

As for myself, I did receive excellent training, beginning at Colorado Mountain College with Professor Curt Bender (cbender on this forum), and then OJT with our most veteran operator, Larry (he's been at it since the days of Tuckers with rollers). I still consider myself somewhat of a rookie, though I take great pride in my work (healthy pride, mind you, not egotistical pride); I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist, perhaps a little too much at times. But I think my greatest advantage is that I ski several times a week, and really get to analyze the quality of my work from the perspective of the guests. I also work behind the guest services desk one day each week, and make sure to get input from guests about what I groomed the night before. I take all this input, and experiment until I find what makes the most aesthetically pleasing, and nicest skiing product I can come up with.

As a skier, perhaps the most important lesson I've learned is this: just because my pass looks good behind me doesn't mean it's going to ski well the next day. I'm always aiming for skiability first, aesthetics second, and everything else is tertiary. Which means I'm trying to make a soft, easy-turning, seamless product on the beginner and intermediate runs, and a hard, fast, seamless product on the racing/race training trails. I also like the end result to look nice, so I'm very careful about my patterns and how they affect skiers, such as where I do turn-arounds, the direction of the corduroy as it relates to the direction of skier traffic, carefully articulating to avoid leaving any track marks (and keeping a nice, clean pattern when possible), etc.

Grooming is definitely an art, and you have to have a passion for it to achieve good results. Admittedly, I'm not always happy with my work. But then I figure out what didn't go well, and I adjust to correct.

Alright, I'm done babbling. Just thought I'd throw out some more ideas to consider. I do hope this forum continues to grow and becomes a bit more active. I think it has the potential to be a great resource, sounding board, and a place to ask questions and share ideas.

[Canadianbombar]

On BR tillers on a regular night with hard pack or not much fresh typically a 50/50 setting on both is the sweet spot and can be left at that. I almost never use down pressure....only on extreme ice....down pressure will actually "create" ice is you use it regularily....it hardpacks the snow to ice over time. In deep pow I would off course close the chamber (close meaning not dragging any snow along with you) and possibly back the tiller out some depending on how it was working. On PB's....a medium chamber setting and a 2.5 inch cut seems to be the optimum set it and forget it for regular operations on the old flex tiller. I was taught this by a 20 year op on my year 3.....to quote him "You BR guys are always f#$%^ing with your tillers"...50/50 and leave it alone!!!". In my observation...that appeared to be pretty good general operations advice!

[snowwizard]

With the Prinoth tiller i use it in float 99% of the time. The Snow chamber is the only one i adjust often. I have the snow chamber opened when going up hill to carry snow in the tiller, and down hill i have the` snow chamber closed going down hill. The tiller adjustment i pretty much leave alone when the SS has been found.