PB's Alpine Flex tiller

[jenemama]

Hi all,
I'm an operator at Brighton Ski Resort in Utah. We've recently aquired 3 new PB 400's, 2 are new this year and have the latest and greatest Alpine Flex tiller. I haven't had a ton of seat time in these 2 new cats yet, but when I do, I can't seem to find the sweet spot on the tiller. I'm constantly messing with the depth, the cupping, the speed... sometimes the pass looks okay, but I'm surprised it's so difficult to coax a decent pass out of this tiller. Is this a learning curve on the tiller or is it a POS, or is it simply operator error? Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome. Happy grooming! Jen

[Tom400CFI]

How much are you using your blade?

In what condditions do you have the problem?

What other models do you run and how do they work for you?

[jenemama]

After another shift things are improving. The blade appears to be the key... not too much, not too little, just right. Conditions are absolutely perfect, 100" snowpack, 5" fresh 2 days ago, very cold. I operate PB Edge Bully's as well as a PB 400 first generation... never a problem, always seamless, beautiful roy.

Seems like the tiller doesn't hold as much snow nor does it want to be run as deep as other models. It shows EVERY mistake. It has cupping which is new on a PB for me, and the roy just looks different (which is taking some time getting used to). Mostly, the pass looks nothing like the thick, stiff roy PB's typically produce unless I go over it twice.

This tiller is a whole new animal compared to anything I've ever seen from PB before. Looking forward to any suggestions you may have...

[Tom400CFI]

The blade appears to be the key... not too much, not too little, just right.

I think that you've hit the nail on the head there.

This tiller is a whole new animal compared to anything I've ever seen from PB before. Looking forward to any suggestions you may have...

ONE of the reasons why we stopped buying PB's after the discontinuation of the 200 EDGE. I wish they hadn't stopped making that cat.

[jenemama]

After another week's time in the seat, I thought I'd add some follow up thoughts on the Alpine Flex tiller. As the manual brags, the cupping feature comes in handy in hard snow - creating a fabulous snow chamber and leaving a perfect pass with deep, stiff PB roy, with little bladework necessary. Whereas in other conditions, you must have the sweet spot in the blade to get the sweet spot in the tiller. This tiller isn't really a set it and forget it kind of implement, it needs adjusting throughout the shift.

We run a full fleet of PB's and enjoy them very much. Although a huge fan of Edge Bully's, I often think the 400's make them seem gutless. I think bonding is in progress here...

Happy trails!

[Tom400CFI]

The 200 Edge isn't gutless compared to the 400; it's got a 40 hp deficit to the 400, but weighs substantially less too. HP to weight ratio are similar for the two cats. The "problem" with the power of the 200 Edge is that it uses a much smaller displacement engine (7.4L compared to 9L) and more boost to make it's power and tq. What tha means is when you "catch" a 200 Edge in off boost and/or low RPM situations and a heavy load...it falls on it's face. The larger displacment Cummins engine in the 400 can mangage those situations better. Dealing w/that in the 200 is a simple matter of drive card tuning, (something most shops don't bother with) and/or operator management of engine RPM's during rapid load changes -anticipating needs and adjusting accordingly.

Both great machiens, but I prefer the simplicity and weight of the 200.

[skigroomer]

Hi all,
I'm an operator at Brighton Ski Resort in Utah. We've recently aquired 3 new PB 400's, 2 are new this year and have the latest and greatest Alpine Flex tiller. I haven't had a ton of seat time in these 2 new cats yet, but when I do, I can't seem to find the sweet spot on the tiller. I'm constantly messing with the depth, the cupping, the speed... sometimes the pass looks okay, but I'm surprised it's so difficult to coax a decent pass out of this tiller. Is this a learning curve on the tiller or is it a POS, or is it simply operator error? Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome. Happy grooming! Jen

Jen,
We got a PB400 3 years ago now at the same time we got a BR350. Our PB400 has about 1500 hrs and the BR350 has 2200 hours on it. Ours some issues with the tractor and PB has come to try and fix it but it still is not been solved. We just hired someone that has run some Edge's and would rather run our old BR275 to the PB400 because he has to babysit the tiller and is under powered for what they say it can do. Wish you luck with the Alpine Flex Tiller but if we don't have to run it we wont. It sits sometimes in the yard for days without being run.

Good Luck.

[troutriver]

Good luck with it. Glad I don't run one!

[truman]

hi
i have have been a snow cat operator for the past 23yrs. i have driven PB, Prinoth and BR. we have an alpine tiller on our 400 winch cat and my whole crew really likes it. once you have set it to your liking, you can forget about it. the key to using the tiller in new snow snow conditions is to keep the "ears" on the snow surface and you won't have any spillage problems.

cheers
truman
grooming sup. red mountain b.c.

[jenemama]

Love the cat, LOVE the tiller. It just took some time.

The 200 Edge isn't gutless compared to the 400

Thanks for the explanation, Tom. Please note that I said "seem" gutless, I didn't say it "is" gutless.

I very much enjoy our Piston Bully fleet here at Brighton and wouldn't trade my new 400 with it's awesome Alpine Flex tiller for anything. It leaves the best surface in the fleet. If anyone wants to talk Alpine Flex, I'm your gal.

Enjoy!