prinoth vs. PB

[WINCHCAT]

between the 2 companys which one has better cats? (from your experience)

[admin]

Tough call, IMO. I think PB has a longer track record (pun intended) of reliability and performance, but Prinoth makes a solid product, and continues to innovate. Time will tell. I've only been behind the sticks one season...

But, you can't argue vith ze German manufacturer. As Paul Rauschke will be proud to tout of any PB, "Das machine stammt aus Deutschland. Was mehr muss man ssagen?"

[Canadianbombar]

Tough call, IMO. I think PB has a longer track record (pun intended) of reliability and performance, but Prinoth makes a solid product, and continues to innovate. Time will tell. I've only been behind the sticks one season...

But, you can't argue vith ze German manufacturer. As Paul Rauschke will be proud to tout of any PB, "Das machine stammt aus Deutschland. Was mehr muss man ssagen?"

Ummm...Patrick.. How can you say PB has a longer track record when Joseph-Armand Bombardier built the first snow machines and snowcats literal decades before anyone else attempted?? Around 1920 to be exact. He literally invented them....40 years before anyone else ever tried to build one. Quite a few of his original cat's and the first commercially successful cats (Bombardier was the ONLY game in town for about 30 years) are still out there running. Show me a PB cat from 1975 even that still runs! Prinoth purchased that heritage and lineage. By Comparison, Pisten Bully's first cat never even set a track on the snow until 1970....50 years later!

[Canadianbombar]

Oh...and...if you want to base "Track Records" on the original inception dates of Prinoth and PB...Prinoth still comes out years ahead. Prinoth was grooming the slopes for the World Championships before Pisten Bully even had their first cat off the drawing board. Man...where do you come up with this stuff? *Miffed*

[admin]

Ah, but you err in your interpretation of my statement. I said PB has a longer track record of performance and reliability. I still contend that this is true. Kassbohrer might not have been making cats <1970, but Karl Kassbohrer was building vehicles when Joseph-Armand Bombardier was still in diapers!


In my limited experience and opinion, Pisten Bully is a more reliable brand, and more reliable machine. My experience with Prinoth has been poor support coupled with under-built machines. The simple fact of the Bomb-Camoplast-Prinoth-Leitner brand changes raises to reliability concerns. If not the machines themselves, the support and the continuity of brand. A Pisten Bully was a Pisten Bully in 1969, and it remains a Pisten Bully today in 2009. Long Live Kassbohrer All Terrain Vehicles Pisten Bully!

THAT is where I come up with this stuff. *Miffed*

[Canadianbombar]

Ah, but you err in your interpretation of my statement. I said PB has a longer track record of performance and reliability. I still contend that this is true. Kassbohrer might not have been making cats <1970, but Karl Kassbohrer was building vehicles when Joseph-Armand Bombardier was still in diapers!


In my limited experience and opinion, Pisten Bully is a more reliable brand, and more reliable machine. My experience with Prinoth has been poor support coupled with under-built machines. The simple fact of the Bomb-Camoplast-Prinoth-Leitner brand changes raises to reliability concerns. If not the machines themselves, the support and the continuity of brand. A Pisten Bully was a Pisten Bully in 1969, and it remains a Pisten Bully today in 2009. Long Live Kassbohrer All Terrain Vehicles Pisten Bully!

THAT is where I come up with this stuff. *Miffed*

I don't think you'll ever find a 1969 Pisten Bully...as one does not start a Cat Company and have a marketable cat all in one year. I think their first model year was a 72....could be right ...could be wrong...but makes sense. You'll have one hell of a hard time finding a 72 Bully....but one can score a 40's era Bombardier Ski Bus quite easily.

Bombi went to Camoplast as they were told by the Canadian Gov't they had to sell off some of their divisions before they could continue to receive support for aerospace projects. They needed to get that dealt with fast to get funds flowing on pending projects...and Camoplast being a Canadian company and the Magna of over the snow vehicle parts (and their main parts supplier) was the natural to spin off to in the interim. The deal with Prinoth was already in the works before Camoplast even took control of the company.....it did not go directly to Prinoth because it would have taken too long to sell to a foreign entity. Prinoth wanted Bombi as they new full well they had better cat technology and design staff than themselves (or anyone for that matter). I will give you that...Prinoth pre Bombi was not the Cat's meow. Prinoth now IS Bombi though. Prinoth then MERGED with Leitner in order to be able to offer more facilities worldwide in what is really a small niche Industry (ski industry equipment)....and to be able to be a one stop shop. So...in reality....there was one forced takeover followed by a merger to give better service to joint customers worldwide....and you want to paint this as Bombardier being a bastard child that nobody wants thru the same scenario?!?! Bombardier themselves would love to still own the company if they weren't forced to sell it in order to be able to proceed with building the worlds fastest trains, planes and rocket ships.

[Canadianbombar]

A Pisten Bully was a Pisten Bully in 1969, and it remains a Pisten Bully today in 2009. Long Live Kassbohrer All Terrain Vehicles Pisten Bully!

THAT is where I come up with this stuff. *Miffed*

Actually...your outlandish statements led me to do a bit more research to educate myself even more on this issue than I already was. Pisten Bully of 1969 is actually NOT the Pisten Bully of 2009. In 1994 Kassbohrer went bankrupt and what remained was bought by Beach Tech. KB's first production year was 1971...when they spit out 100 machines. As to Karl Kassbohrer's company being legendary compared to Bombardier...... In the 1920's...when Bombardier was creating the world's first snow cats as a teenager....KB's big invention as a grown man was a utility trailer with solid rubber tires?!?!! In 1994, when KB was filing for bankrupcy, Bombardier was buying learjet, De Haviland and anybody and everybody who built fast trains in Germany. In 2008...Bombardier's annual Global sales topped 18 billion Dollars... Beach Tech/PB was 180 million. Kassbohrer lineage is a joke compared to Bombardiers.....anyone who says otherwise is wearing rose colored glasses.....the same glasses that don't allow you to see the trail of hydraulic fluid behind you as you head up the freakin' mountain!

[admin]

the same glasses that don't allow you to see the trail of hydraulic fluid behind you as you head up the freakin' mountain!

The only cats I've had to watch a trail of ATF spew out of were yellow. Just sayin.....

[admin]

Oh, and you are right about some of the KATV changes. But your comparisons re:cashflow are like comparing GM ($148 2008) and Maserati ($1.2B 2008), and saying that GM makes a better car because the company is older and makes more money

By the way, BeachTech did not acquire Kassbohrer. Kassbohrer All Terrain Vehicles went independent. BeachTech was a brand INTRODUCED by KATV. KATV may not be family owned anymore, but it has been the Kassbohrer/Pisten Bully brand since day one. And regardless of the changes you mentioned at Kassbohrer, I applaud them for maintaining consistency and brand continuity. You may not think it is important, but in business, developing and maintaining a brand is huge in terms of customer perception and relation.

If the Bomb lineage is SO much better, then why does PB have 60% of the market share???

I can see that you bleed yellow. You can have your opinion. Did you read the original question? It asked our opinions. In my opinion, regardless of your attempt to change my mind, I still think PB is a better cat, and I trust the company. That's my opinion. Yours is clear. You're not going to change mine, and likewise. Let's get some other opinions and quit the history lessons.

[admin]

And one more thing. Here's a 1969 model PB: