GPS Tracking on Machines

Re: GPS Tracking on Machines

Postby Canadianbombar on 07 Sep 2009, 20:13

Patrick Torsell wrote:
Tom400CFI wrote:Depends on the brand. One we looked at was a couple grand/unit, plus monthly fee.


So any savings in efficiency goes straight to the tattle-tail! :lol:

Okay, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration. But I definitely feel that a well-managed and supervised grooming crew is better. The tattle-tail devices might be installed with the best of intentions for increasing efficiency, but more than likely you will end up with an unhappy crew who feel like the boss doesn't trust them, and only cares about the bottom line (important as it may be). Better to focus (as a manager) on developing responsibility and work ethic, and maybe even tightening up hiring standards. I have always been adamantly opposed to the guest-first, or bottom-line-first philosophy. Employee-first. That is what works. Hire the best people you can, treat them well well, empower them, trust them (only as far as you can, of course), let them take responsibility. As a result, guest satisfaction and treatment will improve, overall image and brand recognition will improve, and (assuming a cogent operational model) the business will survive. That's an incredibly oversimplified statement, but sums it up, IMO.


That works in almost any recreation/entertainment industry. If you have a pumped up staff in a nightclub who feel like they're valued......it's almost all you actually have to do for that business to rake it in. Paying your staff shit wages, spending the money you should have spent on them on useless flyer advertising litter, and then yelling at them when it doesn't work nets you no customer loyalty and a staff that will find a way to steal from you more than what you should have just paid them in the first place.
Canadianbombar
Operator
 
Posts: 142
Joined: 26 May 2009, 00:31
Location: Truro, Nova Scotia

Re: GPS Tracking on Machines

Postby admin on 07 Sep 2009, 21:55

Canadianbombar wrote:
That works in almost any recreation/entertainment industry. If you have a pumped up staff in a nightclub who feel like they're valued......it's almost all you actually have to do for that business to rake it in. Paying your staff shit wages, spending the money you should have spent on them on useless flyer advertising litter, and then yelling at them when it doesn't work nets you no customer loyalty and a staff that will find a way to steal from you more than what you should have just paid them in the first place.



True. And if we want to get philosophical, we could say that this is a commentary on the human condition; under circumstances of ordinary life, one who is treated well and is valued will treat well and value others. There are exceptions to every rule, but this one works well when applied (and maintained) properly.
Patrick Torsell
Forum Admin
patrick@slopegroomer.com

Director of Marketing, IT, & Slope Maintenance
Ski Cooper, Colorado

Image
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 182
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 19:54
Location: Leadville, CO

Re: GPS Tracking on Machines

Postby Tom400CFI on 28 Sep 2009, 16:19

Patrick Torsell wrote:
Tom400CFI wrote:Depends on the brand. One we looked at was a couple grand/unit, plus monthly fee.


So any savings in efficiency goes straight to the tattle-tail! :lol:

Okay, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration. But I definitely feel that a well-managed and supervised grooming crew is better. The tattle-tail devices might be installed with the best of intentions for increasing efficiency, but more than likely you will end up with an unhappy crew who feel like the boss doesn't trust them, and only cares about the bottom line (important as it may be). Better to focus (as a manager) on developing responsibility and work ethic, and maybe even tightening up hiring standards. I have always been adamantly opposed to the guest-first, or bottom-line-first philosophy. Employee-first. That is what works. Hire the best people you can, treat them well well, empower them, trust them (only as far as you can, of course), let them take responsibility. As a result, guest satisfaction and treatment will improve, overall image and brand recognition will improve, and (assuming a cogent operational model) the business will survive. That's an incredibly oversimplified statement, but sums it up, IMO.


^^I could agree more! Well said.
Tom400CFI
Mountain/Resort Management
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 May 2009, 18:21

Re: GPS Tracking on Machines

Postby Uncle Fester on 02 Feb 2010, 15:39

This month's issue of Ski Area Management has an article about this. After reading the article, I think GPS would be valuable for any resort, large or small, that wants to save on fuel costs.

I wouldn't see it as Big Brother watching you. Some examples the GPS companies cite:

- A park groomer who was putting on a lot of extra mileage on his machine because he kept going back and forth to the garage to pick up parts. With that information, the area moved the parts closer to the park, saving a lot of fuel.

- Grooming patterns of more experienced operators might be more efficient. This information could be passed to less experienced operators.

- These systems can even be be configured to show real-time snow depth (if the trail has first been mapped in the summer). Considering the hefty cost of snowmaking, this would make early-season operations more efficient.

If GPS was on my cat, I would most certainly be interested in seeing the numbers and looking for ways to make improvement. Even traveling routes, for example. Sometimes it takes me 45 minutes even to get to the trail I'm going to groom, and I wonder which is the most efficient path.
User avatar
Uncle Fester
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 01 Feb 2010, 15:03

Re: GPS Tracking on Machines

Postby Tom400CFI on 06 Feb 2010, 13:05

I read that article too and after reading the article, I have to ask: WHAT exactly is GPS going to show me that I don't already see/know myself?? The article was terrible. So bad, in fact, that I'm contemplating writing a letter to the editor about it -and not to criticize, but more to ask for more clarity on the issue. The article didn't really tell us ANYTHING. Fester, since you seemed to like the article; maybe I missed something. Please tell me SPECIFICALLY, what a GPS will help me do "better"?

The examples that you quoted from the article were among the items in the article that I took exception to;

1. You need a thousands of dollar GPS system to tell you that you're wasting time tracking to the shop and back? seriously? Someone needs to wake up.
2. How does GPS display the "grooming patterns of veterans"? It doesn't. It shows a bunch of squiggly lines overlayed on a trail map. You don't know which line was first, second, etc. If you want to learn the grooming patterns of a 'vet, go groom w/a vet.
3. Snow depth; Probe while skiing around?

Many of the claims in the article were totally subjective and meaningless; "GPS-guided grooming can help resorts use resources more efficiently." -Than what? Doing nothing? For sure. But it needs to be quantified. Clarified. So far, that hasn't happened...at least not for me. I can't see how GPS would help our efficiency. Certainly not enough to offset the ~$50,000.00 it would cost to equip all the cats and buy the software.
Tom400CFI
Mountain/Resort Management
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 May 2009, 18:21

Re: GPS Tracking on Machines

Postby Uncle Fester on 06 Feb 2010, 16:44

I agree, Tom, that the savings would have to be significant in order to offset the presumably high cost of the system. In order to sell it, they would probably have to come up with some sort of free demo.

I also agree that a GPS wouldn't be of much use figuring out new grooming patterns. There are too many variables in grooming to let a computer suggest what the best method is.

Another problem is that unless this system comes with consulting support, you would have to find someone to sit down and analyze this data. This could be a pretty big project and I don't know if anyone has time for that.

There are a couple things about such a system that might have merit, however. I think the snow depth feature would be useful. During periods of heavy snowmaking, we doze it out as soon as it's made (or while it's made), which doesn't really lend itself to skiing around in the day and probing. And probing for depth in old snowmaking would be pretty difficult, since it's often rock-hard. Finally, I don't feel like spending my ski day probing snow unless I'm getting paid to do so.

The example of the guy driving back and forth to pick up rails -- some things are pretty obvious in hindsight. But sometimes an operation won't notice inefficiency until it is pointed out. At my resort, we do a lot of things just because "that's the way it's always been." I think this has analogues at manufacturing facilities also. We think that because things have always been done that way, that it has to be the right way to do it. But perhaps an outside perspective can show us things that we didn't know or didn't think of. Wouldn't you be interested in seeing the numbers, even if to just show that you're correct about your assumptions?

Overall, it's perhaps costly compared to the returns. But if fuel and energy prices rise, maybe it will become something to look at.
User avatar
Uncle Fester
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 01 Feb 2010, 15:03

Re: GPS Tracking on Machines

Postby Tom400CFI on 06 Feb 2010, 17:57

Good post. I agree w/all of that. I DO agree, that it would be nice to compare GPS data to my tracked data...but we did look into one system and for our 13 cat fleet, it would have been ~$50k. Yikes.
Tom400CFI
Mountain/Resort Management
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 13 May 2009, 18:21

Re: GPS Tracking on Machines

Postby snottydick on 07 Apr 2010, 08:59

I have found our gps units to be beneficial in finding proper lines and linking runs together. At our area, a great deal of our grooming is done above treeline and with the daylight lasting until 21:00, flat light and limited visibility is an issue.
snottydick
Operator
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 03 Aug 2009, 22:24

Previous

Return to General Snowcat Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron