When someone clueless about an industry ....

[Canadianbombar]

...sets out to revolutionize it!

http://www.ecogroomer.com/

Dan Osbourne, a florida based entrepreneur <<< Ba ha ha ha ha. Because we all know Forida is the epicenter of slope grooming technology?!?

Let the Q and A begin:

Dear Dan,

Since I can't get my 1 tiller cat up a slope without drama until 7 days have passed since the last major pow storm....and we only get 5 days at the most between dumps..I will get this monstrosity up how?

Dear Dan,

You do realize 3 times the pumps are required to run 3 times the tillers and I think that is the cause of this particular cat using 450% more fuel than the standard cat we used to groom the bunny hill with...the only slope we can get this thing up?!

Dear Dan,

I just received your Ecogroomer 5000 revision 1...the one with the new blade to solve the dished trail and ridging problem from the prototype...you know....the problems groomers were designed to solve in the first place? I'm wondering how I get my cat with a 54 foot blade in the shop? I also don't have a trail on the mountain with 54 foot clear span of flat plain so I can't use this new blade either?

Dear Dan,

Curiosity got the best of me and I finally managed to get the cat to the top of the mountain tonight by towing it with 2 other cats. Unfortunately we are closed for the season today (Feb 11th) as on the way down the cat ended up tobogganing on what could best be described as a snow Tsunami due to it's width and wound up wrapped around our main detachable chair putting it out of service for the season. I was just wondering Dan...before you designed and sold me this machine...had you ever even been in one?

[admin]

Wow.

I posted my simplified questions on their video @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbDNnqs9kKQ.

Yikes. There's either a lot more to this than we know, or it's not gonna make it beyond the prototype for obvious reasons.

[Canadianbombar]

It's re-inventing the wheel with a square wheel. I'll tell you right now exactly how this is going to go down. In their hillarious timeline they state they've sent out to the major manufactuers for quotations....that's great..they never said they've actually had a response..lol. Prinoth or PB will never touch this in a million years. If the dude has money....the final outcome is going to be Ohara taking his money (knowing full well it won't work) (but they don't care because it will be the only thing the sold this year) building his ridiculous rig and yet another Ohara machine is born that doesn't work and no one wants..lol.

Where you haven't worked out west Patrick....the biggest downfall of this rig is not ice, it is the fact it will never ever climb ANYTHING. The natural snowfall is so soft and abundant that there are atleast 10 times a year that you can't even get a PB300/400 up a GREEN trail with the tiller down....and only if you get a snow drought of a week or more can you climb without using tiller steer, blade wobble etc...again...just to get up a green or mild blue. Having worked both east and west...on my first western shift a few years ago when my manager was telling me about "climbing routes" I was like huh? Why don't we just make passes up and down the runs we're going to groom?? lol I found out in a hurry that snow cats dig big holes in western pow...never ever experienced that back east. We had a BR350 at Big White with Hans Hall tracks that made the thing about 1500 lbs heavier than a regular BR 350. No one ever wanted to use that machine because it dug holes like there was no tomorrow just by adding 1500 lbs to the machine...not 15,000!!! lol.

Now.....where the width of this thing only really caters to excessively wide/level western trails....and it won't climb a western mountain....it's so useless it's not even funny. Even the mountains that have bought beasts (east AND west) are having a hard time fitting them into their grooming programs because they're too big. And what happens when you want to turn this thing? You've got to lift the tillers.....and a ram and arm heavy enough to lift that tiller is going to take a while....meanwhile I've completed another pass with a beast and done the same amount of work using one third the fuel and done a much much better job. The whole thing is just so stupid it's beyond funny. It's like something a kid would create with lego due to not understanding the underlying principals of cat balance and the job it has to do!

[smurfvt]

A Lego groomer would work better! Do ya think this guy has ever even seen a snowflake?

[smurfvt]

By the way Patrick, the third pass in from the skiers left is a little crooked!

[admin]

By the way Patrick, the third pass in from the skiers left is a little crooked!

Well how does it look now? Triple crosshatch, and all.


Oh, and totally off topic, but in case you hadn't heard, the Atomic Lemon is gone for good. Saw it in lot 10 or 11, detracked and ready to be loaded a couple weeks ago. Hope she find a nice new home!

[Canadianbombar]

LOL....Atomic Lemon...I guess you guys never stopped having problems with the 08 Prinoth then? Are you going all PB now? Back on topic..Did this guy have anything to say that even remotely made sense on the back channel Patrick? I wonder if he has the money to blow out the window on this to get to a prototype that will really make for some youtube chuckles?

[snowizard1]

Really don't think the idea is clueless. Would it be like the prototype pictured? Even adding 3 to 5 feet on both sides would be a plus. I think ideas should be looked at with a positive. This industry and especially grooming has come along ways since the birth. Hats off to the Eco-groomer idea would be more than glad to help in any way to promote this idea. Have spent 30 plus years in a cat and have seen many ideas work and many fail.

[admin]

I think ideas should be looked at with a positive.

This I agree with 100%. Even if one does not see merit in the exact design proposed, I believe it would be a mistake to discourage progress in the field of snow grooming. I would have to see a lot more details to be convinced that this concept could, first of all, function as designed, and secondly be a viable product on the market. Nonetheless, I am intrigued and pleased to see that someone is thinking about the future of grooming technology. This may not be the end-all-be-all (in fact, it may fail miserably...), but it would be unfortunate for our little niche in the ski resort operations industry to become stagnant. Why not expand the horizons, shift the paradigm a wee bit? If nothing else, it may open the door for other new innovations in our art and science.

So with that, I say... go for it with the EcoGroomer, and best of luck. Meanwhile, I'm content with a standard alpine-width machine and a tiller. Actually, I kinda like pulling rolling stock. But I'm weird.

[smurfvt]

Rumor has it the atomic lemon is heading for nakiska bc! I still have my prinoth hat though!