When someone clueless about an industry ....

Re: When someone clueless about an industry ....

Postby Canadianbombar on 21 Aug 2011, 21:21

Who on earth would list a tiller side view length and not a width? That's not me reading something incorrectly...that's you listing a ridiculous spec!! Who on earth would want to know the side view length of a tiller?!?!? I apologize....I forgot to account for insanity while reading.

Everything you say, do and every bit of info you reveal just convinces me more and more of the fly by night nature of what's going on here. I just can't figure out what the end game is??? I'm assuming you think you can probably license this hair brained idea off for easy millions. Your previous "experience" is as a mortgage broker in Florida....the epicenter of real estate mortgage doom and the cause of the recession?!?? :lol: Now you want to build a "revolutionary" snow groomer just because you saw PB Beach Tech's and associated working to strip BP oil off St. Pete's beach and think that technology will work on a ski hill !?!? (I recongnized this as the spark of your "invention" from the second I saw "Florida" associated with this). A. It won't work with snow. B. PB isn't interested in buying something they invented back from you because they already know it won't work on snow!
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Re: When someone clueless about an industry ....

Postby admin on 21 Aug 2011, 22:54

Cut the personal attacks and keep it friendly or I'll put a swift end to it. You don't have to agree with the concept, but he's got the same right to discuss and present his story that everyone else has. The petty personal attacks accomplish nothing and reflect poorly on all parties involved. Enough.

And as I mentioned before, why stifle progress and creative thought? I have plenty of my own reservations about this concept, but why spit in the face of some fresh ideas?
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Re: When someone clueless about an industry ....

Postby Canadianbombar on 21 Aug 2011, 23:38

Because my gut tells me there's something seriously wrong here. I'm not sure what the angle is...but there IS an angle. His "credentials" back up my gut....he's the type sell you a condo weather you could afford it or not. I'm pretty sure the angle is taking someones money who doesn't know any better to fund all this foolishness. I think deep down I'm posting about this now to make sure there's something on the net to try and "save" the unweary who are atleast smart enough to do some online due dilligence. :shock:
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Re: When someone clueless about an industry ....

Postby admin on 22 Aug 2011, 07:32

Canadianbombar wrote:Because my gut tells me there's something seriously wrong here. I'm not sure what the angle is...but there IS an angle. His "credentials" back up my gut....he's the type sell you a condo weather you could afford it or not. I'm pretty sure the angle is taking someones money who doesn't know any better to fund all this foolishness. I think deep down I'm posting about this now to make sure there's something on the net to try and "save" the unweary who are atleast smart enough to do some online due dilligence. :shock:


It is entirely possible for one to effectively express his reservations without making personal attacks.
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Re: When someone clueless about an industry ....

Postby EcoGroomer on 22 Aug 2011, 07:52

So here is the bottom line guys. I am a very passionate skier, entrepreneur and inventor and I love the sport. I have identfied a gap in the market and a problem that need to be solved. Just as the concept has evolved over the past 9 months, it will continue to be refined through CAD modelling and testing until it is brought to market. I have put up some bold timelines that will likely stretch out a bit, but I do not believe that has to be a 3-5 year project with the technology that we now have available to model complex systems digitally. There is a level of urgency attached to the project by design and there is obviously market demand based upon the media coverage and positive feedback that we have received from the resort operators in such a short time period.

Are there doubters? Yes, about 20% of the ops managers and cat operators believe it is not feasible. The other 80% can see the potential and that the concept has merit for a large segment of their grooming needs once fully engineered, prototyped and tested.

My aim is to deliver an innovation that saves major resorts significant operating expenses. I have been quite clear that this is not designed to groom 100% of the slopes. It is for the wide blue and green runs that are plentiful at most major resorts. It is all about specialization.... you have winch cats for the most extreme pistes, park cats to build features, standard cats to push and rebuild the slopes and you have the EcoGroomer that can provide high efficiency grooming much of the time. Every night that an EG is sent out, the resort will save over $1000 in operator, fuel and other costs. Multily this out by 600-700 nights of service over the life of the equipment and we are talking significant savings in fuel and capital. How CB can see this as some evil plot or scam is hard to comprehend. Perhaps he is concerned that some cat operators will be sidelined in the process. Some of them no doubt will be over time. The good ones will not. In fact the best operators will be able to make a higher wage operating high efficiency equipment such as this. This is how technology evolves. It has already been proven effective in the ConAg business and it can and will be applied to a broad segment of snow grooming, which is still a fairly young art.

There is nothing that I can say to convince someone like CB. I should not even try. I agree with the Admin that the persoanl attacks (which started from his very first post by the way) are counterproductive and unfair. I am not going to just sit there an let someone slam me personally without responding, but at some point it is not worth the time and effort to respond.

The EcoGroomer is coming, that is a certainty. How quickly depends upon a lot of factors, but it will happen. This will be my final post on this discussion.
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Re: When someone clueless about an industry ....

Postby Canadianbombar on 22 Aug 2011, 11:25

Just as the concept has evolved over the past 9 months, it will continue to be refined through CAD modelling and testing until it is brought to market. I have put up some bold timelines that will likely stretch out a bit, but I do not believe that has to be a 3-5 year project with the technology that we now have available to model complex systems digitally.

Sigh....it is absolutely a 3 -5 year project...or more. This is just the first problem with your numbers.

Are there doubters? Yes, about 20% of the ops managers and cat operators believe it is not feasible. The other 80% can see the potential and that the concept has merit for a large segment of their grooming needs once fully engineered, prototyped and tested.

You have those numbers reversed.


Basically....everything you've put on the net is so utterley ridiculous... it is THAT which lends you ZERO credibility. I could tell it was ridiculous at just a glance....then when I did the quick math and realized you needed to immediately replace every single snow cat in the US x 2 with a product that delivers and then some in every situation in order to save your 20 million gallons by 2020...well...that told me you're a sham wow salesperson....actually worse...as sham wow's work....they're old technology being re-delivered.

For all I know..You might be the nicest guy ever....and mean well...but when every single number you put forward doesn't even come close to working we're back to the "what's going on here" and the MONSTER credibility hit. It leads one to belive you're completely full of it. It's not just numbers....you state you have all this support....yet not a single statement from a real industry based supporter. You haven't even peaked the interest of any of the real industry trades....who are always dying for stories....even as a human interest story....why? Probably because they looked at what you've put out there and decided it wreaked in much the same fashion I did and didn't want to insult the intelligence of their readership. I don't even discredit that something like this can be built and work to some extent....but the cold hard reality of the fact is that by 2020 the smart money is on it having WASTED 20,000 gallons of fuel in testing and experimentation.

Lastly....if you are the team lead on this project and want to speed things up...you desperately need to go get a job as a snow cat operator in varying parts of the country for the next 5 years so you actually have the first clue about what it is that you're trying to do. As to your "dig" about "worried about being put out of work". I run several corporations. I "participate" in the mountain operations field because I love the field...not because I have to. I returned to it about 6 years ago because I could finally afford to take the job again.....as in I was making enough money that I could afford spending some time doing what I like to do irregardless of the piss poor pay scale. It's that exact reason that decent cat ops are hard to come by...not the other way around...so...again you're showing your complete ignorance of the industry. I'm not out to get you.......you do it to yourself. That will probably be your ultimate demise.
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Re: When someone clueless about an industry ....

Postby EcoGroomer on 22 Aug 2011, 18:54

OK Mr. "I run several corporations. I "participate" in the mountain operations field because I love the field...not because I have to". And you chose to go back to the 200 meter hills of Nova Scotia because they are so challenging and hard core, right? I am going to let the thread speak for itself and anyone who reads it will clearly see who the idiot is. Unless the admin decides to delete it all becuase you are wasting his server space with your continual bla bla. Get a life!
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Re: When someone clueless about an industry ....

Postby admin on 22 Aug 2011, 22:10

Locking for a cool-down period. This is not acceptable. I only expect common civility on both sides of any argument, as enumerated in the forum rules and policies. We'll see if we can approach this from a more reasonable standpoint at a later time.
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